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Author Topic: Inkscape Compatibility with Adobe Illustrator  (Read 4104 times)

August 19, 2018, 03:36:28 AM
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RBH

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Hi,
can anyone help with this please?

I did some work in Inkscape and exported as pdf (Settings- restricted to pdf 1.5, embed fonts, rasterise filter effects, 300 dpi, use exported objects size, bleed/margin 1.0) to be printed. The printers are using Adobe Illustrator and are having trouble with the files, which they think are corrupted. The issue I see is with the text.

The proofs they sent back had rather blurred, grey text instead of the sharp black text in my pdf. In one version there are several letters partly missing, in another, whole lines of text are missing the top half of the letters (see attached).

The printers are now asking for a CMYK high res pdf. I've found ghostscript but haven't a clue how to use command line to convert to CMYK. Any help appreciated.
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August 19, 2018, 05:37:47 AM
Reply #1

phiscribe

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I am not sure where the blurred text is coming from.  It would be helpful if you posted a link to the svg file itself rather than a screen shot.

As to CMYK, Inkscape can't make a PDF with an attached color profile, such as cmyk.  One solution to this is to use the program Scribus to import your Inkscape svg, set the correct cmyk colors, and then export or save as pdf.  Scribus can make a PDF with a riding color profile.  If your just doing text, Scribus might be better to begin with.  I think there is a way to get Ghostscript to convert colors, but am not sure if it makes the needed color profile the printers want.  This would be a conversion.  Conversions might not be highly accurate.  Better to use Scribus and set the colors, then there is no conversion, just the colors.  Usually this only matters in highly color managed environments.
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August 19, 2018, 06:36:11 AM
Reply #2

RBH

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Hi, Thanks for your reply.
It would be helpful if you posted a link to the svg file itself rather than a screen shot
The screenshot is of the printers' pdf after it's been through Adobe Illustrator. A pdf saved from the SVG and printed was fairly good. Compatibility with AI is the issue.

If your just doing text, Scribus might be better to begin with.
It's image and text in several layers.

I think there is a way to get Ghostscript to convert colors,
Yes there is, but I don't understand how to use it or know whether converting to CMYK the answer to the problem.

Ghostscript uses a command line-

-dSAFER -dBATCH \
    -dNOPAUSE -dNOCACHE -sDEVICE=pdfwrite \
    -sColorConversionStrategy=CMYK \
    -dProcessColorModel=/DeviceCMYK \
    -sOutputFile=document_cmyk.pdf \
name of document

but it doesn't give any idea of where the end product might be or whether it's worked, not to someone with my level of understanding anyway.
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August 19, 2018, 12:26:06 PM
Reply #3

brynn

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For your first try it might have worked better if you had converted to text to path, either while in Inkscape, or using the PDF dialog.  But this is certainly not the first time we've heard of printers who balk at Inkscape files.  We've even heard of one who claimed that Inkscape is malware, and not a real graphic program!

But for your next try -- the best way to get CMYK with Inkscape, is to use Scribus.  That works with both text and images.  Here's a tutorial:  http://libregraphicsworld.org/blog/entry/getting-cmyk-colors-from-inkscape-to-scribus

I'm not sure how to get high res in a vector file.  Unless that refers to the rasterizing of filter effects.  Oh yeah, you can set that in the PDF dialog, when you save.

I've never heard of using GS to get CMYK color in an Inkscape image.  That doesn't mean it's not possible, just I've never heard of it.
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August 20, 2018, 04:03:01 AM
Reply #4

RBH

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Thanks for that, I fell at the first. I've searched my PC for an icc folder and I don't have one.

"First of all, make sure your profiles are in ~/.local/share/color/icc folder."

I'm not entirely sure what a color profile is either, or where it would be if it wasn't in the icc folder.
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August 20, 2018, 04:29:34 AM
Reply #5

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Can't Illustrator read SVG directly?
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Don't stop where the ink does.

August 20, 2018, 05:03:29 AM
Reply #6

RBH

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Thanks for that, I fell at the first. I've searched my PC for an icc folder and I don't have one.

"First of all, make sure your profiles are in ~/.local/share/color/icc folder."

I'm not entirely sure what a color profile is either, or where it would be if it wasn't in the icc folder.

Sooooo, I ignored the first part and managed to open a colour profile in Inkscape. I presume it doesn't matter which one. I then selected some text. I am now confused as the Inkscape interface in the tutorial is clearly different from mine, and it doesn't seem to make sense.

1. From Fill And Stroke, my CMS tab doesn't show the vertical CMYKA alterables. These are only available from the CMYK tab. That does make sense, but then why go to the CMS tab anyway?
2. These tabs are only available when text is selected. Surely I need to export the entire file as CMYK?
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August 20, 2018, 05:14:21 AM
Reply #7

brynn

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Yeah, that tutorial was written quite some time ago.  I'm sure Inkscape has changed since then.  The technique still works, but probably options might have moved.

I've never actually read that tutorial.  So let me read it, and I'll try to set you on the right track. 

CMS tab??  Not sure what or where that is, but let me read the tutorial and I"ll try to help.

shawnhcorey, yes, I assume AI can read SVG.  It sounds to me like the printers are being difficult.
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August 20, 2018, 05:44:21 AM
Reply #8

brynn

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Ok, so you ignored the first part?  What part was that, specifically?

I can't figure out the Windows version for this file path, shown in the tutorial

Quote (selected)
~/.local/share/color/icc folder

I don't think you need to actually create or install a new color profile to your computer.  There should be one or 2 already listed in the Color tab of Document Properties.  You could just choose one of those.

I actually have a color profile listed which is a lot like the one in the tutorial - called SWOP.  Anyway, I get the impression that you need to choose whatever color profile which you chose in Doc Prop, in the CMS tab.  Did you select the same profile from the list?

Regarding your question about why go to the CMS tab anyway - I would say, because that's what the tutorial says to do.  I wouldn't be 2nd guessing it.

Yes, the tabs are only available when any object with a fill color is selected.  If you don't have anything selected, or it you have something selected which doesn't have a fill color, then most of the Fill tab is grayed out.

According to the tutorial, you do not need to export as CMYK.  I don't think there's any file format called CYMK.  (CMYK is a print color model)  I would save it as SVG.  Then as the tutorial says, open Scribus, and import it.
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August 20, 2018, 05:59:21 AM
Reply #9

phiscribe

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Color profiles files, icc, are International Color Consortium compliant files that help match an input or output device to a color space.  You have some on your system for your monitor that the OS deals with.  Your printer uses one.  Basically it allows color from a device and color space to be mapped to color and color space to another device.  As this is going to probably an offset printer in the US, you want probably want a CMYK Web Coated SWOP one.  If your in the UK or lots of Europe, CMYK FOGRA39 is probably what to go with.  Check with the printer.

Here you can find a download.  https://www.adobe.com/support/downloads/iccprofiles/iccprofiles_win.html

Using ICC profiles, you get the most accurate map from the colors you see on your monitor to the output device, bearing in mind that some colors in one color space can never be made in another.

But, as I have been trying to say, Inkscape can not, can not, produce a pdf with an attached color profile.  You need Scribus in this mix.  You would use the color profile in Scribus.  Doesn't matter if you send them the svg and Illustrator opens it, (unless they are willing to set the colors themselves.)  Doesn't matter if you get the profile and set the cmyk colors in the svg with Inkscape.  Inkscape won't produce the file they are looking for, that is a PDF with the ICC for CMYK Web Coated SWOP attached. 

All of this is something of overkill.  Your printer should be able to do the conversions themselves, if they are of the mind to do so.  The bigger problem is the blurring your seeing.  It would help if you linked to the actual svg file so those here can see if they can reproduce the result.  Maybe you have a filter effect or some other thing throwing a wrench at the monkey.  It mostly matters when you are dealing with BIG production, where you don't want to make 100,000 of something with the wrong color.
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August 20, 2018, 07:00:39 AM
Reply #10

RBH

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Ok, so you ignored the first part?  What part was that, specifically?

"First of all, make sure your profiles are in ~/.local/share/color/icc folder."

Anyway, I get the impression that you need to choose whatever color profile which you chose in Doc Prop, in the CMS tab.  Did you select the same profile from the list?

I chose one but can't select it from the CMS tab list.

Regarding your question about why go to the CMS tab anyway - I would say, because that's what the tutorial says to do.  I wouldn't be 2nd guessing it.

trouble is, I've only got this far in the tutorial by second guessing, it's barely applicable to my Inkscape version.

The short is that Scribus won't import any of my SVG files correctly as they "contain unsupported features."

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August 20, 2018, 07:05:47 AM
Reply #11

RBH

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Color profiles files, icc, are International Color Consortium compliant files that help match an input or output device to a color space.  You have some on your system for your monitor that the OS deals with.  Your printer uses one.  Basically it allows color from a device and color space to be mapped to color and color space to another device.  As this is going to probably an offset printer in the US, you want probably want a CMYK Web Coated SWOP one.  If your in the UK or lots of Europe, CMYK FOGRA39 is probably what to go with.  Check with the printer.

Here you can find a download.  https://www.adobe.com/support/downloads/iccprofiles/iccprofiles_win.html

Using ICC profiles, you get the most accurate map from the colors you see on your monitor to the output device, bearing in mind that some colors in one color space can never be made in another.

But, as I have been trying to say, Inkscape can not, can not, produce a pdf with an attached color profile.  You need Scribus in this mix.  You would use the color profile in Scribus.  Doesn't matter if you send them the svg and Illustrator opens it, (unless they are willing to set the colors themselves.)  Doesn't matter if you get the profile and set the cmyk colors in the svg with Inkscape.  Inkscape won't produce the file they are looking for, that is a PDF with the ICC for CMYK Web Coated SWOP attached. 

All of this is something of overkill.  Your printer should be able to do the conversions themselves, if they are of the mind to do so.  The bigger problem is the blurring your seeing.  It would help if you linked to the actual svg file so those here can see if they can reproduce the result.  Maybe you have a filter effect or some other thing throwing a wrench at the monkey.  It mostly matters when you are dealing with BIG production, where you don't want to make 100,000 of something with the wrong color.

I found Scribus won't load any of my SVG files correctly, if at all. here's a link to one. https://drive.google.com/open?id=1eDtsYmiyp6T6Gm_ygteTn_j3HHHtFQNW
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August 20, 2018, 07:36:53 AM
Reply #12

Moini

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Can you share a link to an SVG file, instead of a pdf, please? I don't see an issue with the pdf, btw., so please also let us know which parts of the SVG don't work for you with Scribus.

August 20, 2018, 07:41:17 AM
Reply #13

RBH

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Can you share a link to an SVG file, instead of a pdf, please? I don't see an issue with the pdf, btw., so please also let us know which parts of the SVG don't work for you with Scribus.
Sorry, here you go. https://drive.google.com/open?id=1H0yUp-CGFrHqSJrrU7QwCHJjnUPXuu1Q

In Scribus, two other two files didn't load at all. This one did but the text was gone and the six small images were completely rearranged.
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August 20, 2018, 09:55:36 AM
Reply #14

brynn

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"First of all, make sure your profiles are in ~/.local/share/color/icc folder."

Yes, I'm curious about that myself.  I think that's a file path or directory for Linux.  Usually I can figure out the Windows path, but this time I can't sort it out.  It's possible that's a directory of  Inkscape's from version 0.48, and we just need someone to tell us where that directory is located now.

Searching my computer, I've found ICC profiles in inkscape/Lib/site-packages/sk1libs/pycms/profiles (that's for version 0.91) and also in inkscape/python/Lib/site-packages/uniconverter/share/icc (that's for 0.48), as well as MS Office directory, Dell, and printer drivers dirs.  The search didn't find any ICC profiles for the current version of Inkscape.  Also, the current version doesn't seem to have a python directory, at least not at the top level like in those older versions.  It must be buried deeper (in the file structure) now.

I chose one but can't select it from the CMS tab list.

Why not?  It's not there?  Do you have something with a fill color selected at the time you try to choose it?

The short is that Scribus won't import any of my SVG files correctly as they "contain unsupported features."

It might be the flowed text.  Try converting the text either to regular text, or to paths.  Converting to paths would probably be better.  The reason the text was missing is because of the flowed text.  It only works in Inkscape.  I don't know if fixing the text would fix the "unsupported feature error" but it might.  But it will definitely make the text show up.

It might the unicode symbol in the title.  Inkscape has had trouble with files that have odd symbols in the title, in the past.  It's possible Scribus has a problem with it too.

It might be the filter on the background image.  Can you create the same effect without using a filter?  Try removing the filter, and instead reduce the Opacity.

I don't think the locked layers would be a problem, but if none of the above solves it, I would try unlocking the layers.  Ooorr....somewhere in the back of my mind I seem to recall something about layers and Scribus.  I don't have a copy of Scribus to check if it supports layers.  Although note that that vague memory is from probably 10 years ago, and I'm sure Scribus has changed a lot since then.
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August 20, 2018, 12:39:43 PM
Reply #15

phiscribe

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Probably should get rid of the template too.  Flowed text just works in Inkscape.  Filter Effects often go haywire.  If it were me, I would just save the whole thing as PNG.  Put that PNG into a PDF and find some way to get it to cmyk.   Filter effects mess with dimensions.  You may have to set filters dimensions manually in the Filter editor.  I avoid filter effects like the plague.  It's better suited to a raster program.  It can be spectacular if done right, but there are many gotcha's to avoid.  The opacity your using might go south in a PDF, haven't tested enough to be sure.

Currently, this is all just too hard in open source.  Nobodies fault.  It is all complicated.  If you can produce a png from Inkscape at the right dimensions I can put it in a PDF, convert it to cmyk and produce a pdf for you, with some commercial software I have.  This is not idea, as one wants a reproducible method with Inkscape and open source.  But I have software that does it with less fuss and if your in a bind it is no problem.  It's CorelDraw btw.  I exported the png from Inkscape, pulled into Draw and made a U.S. Web Coated (SWOP) v2 cmyk pdf, but am not sure I have the right font or if the dimensions are right.  The PNG out of Inkscape had a large white box, (I assume from the filter effect,) so I cropped it, but might not have gotten it precise.  https://www.dropbox.com/s/33d83dajlple52z/cmykpdf.pdf?dl=0
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August 20, 2018, 01:30:04 PM
Reply #16

Moini

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The flowed text would need to be converted to paths, it doesn't work like that in Scribus, also not if the text has been converted to normal text.
Scribus also cannot deal with the filter, do the filtering in Gimp and save the image.

However, I don't understand why you're not just doing this completely in Scribus. It's made for this thing.... DTP.

Except for the filtering, which I would do in Gimp. Ditch Inkscape for this task, it's not the right tool. Not at all. You're doing text layout here, not graphics.

Converting to CMYK is a child's play with Scribus, once you know how.

August 21, 2018, 03:50:09 AM
Reply #17

RBH

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Thanks for all the support, it's really appreciated. I started this in Inkscape because this is not what I've ever done before and Inkscape is what I found. I only installed Scribus on advice of people here. If I can't sort this soon I will accept your kind offer, phiscribe. Learning the interface of yet another program isn't what I've got time for right now.

Meanwhile, I've removed all filters and changed everything to path, then reduced opacity of background image. Everything imports to Scribus now, but while it looks like the text has kept it's shape, all the parts have lost their intended alignment. This is a report Scribus is giving, not "colour interpolation filters" is still an issue-

"unsupported SVG feature: color-interpolation-filters"
"unsupported SVG feature: enable-background"
"unsupported SVG feature: font-variant"
"unsupported SVG feature: line-height"
"unsupported SVG feature: -inkscape-font-specification"
"unsupported SVG feature: font-variant-ligatures"
"unsupported SVG feature: font-variant-caps"
"unsupported SVG feature: font-variant-numeric"
"unsupported SVG feature: font-feature-settings"
"unsupported SVG feature: text-align"
"unsupported SVG feature: letter-spacing"
"unsupported SVG feature: word-spacing"
"unsupported SVG feature: writing-mode"
"unsupported SVG feature: flowRoot"


Given the above, would realigning everything in Scribus work or would it just be a bodge? If it would work, basic question, how do you manipulate individual blocks in Scribus?
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August 21, 2018, 04:27:47 AM
Reply #18

RBH

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Probably should get rid of the template too.  Flowed text just works in Inkscape.  Filter Effects often go haywire.  If it were me, I would just save the whole thing as PNG.  Put that PNG into a PDF and find some way to get it to cmyk.   Filter effects mess with dimensions.  You may have to set filters dimensions manually in the Filter editor.  I avoid filter effects like the plague.  It's better suited to a raster program.  It can be spectacular if done right, but there are many gotcha's to avoid.  The opacity your using might go south in a PDF, haven't tested enough to be sure.

Currently, this is all just too hard in open source.  Nobodies fault.  It is all complicated.  If you can produce a png from Inkscape at the right dimensions I can put it in a PDF, convert it to cmyk and produce a pdf for you, with some commercial software I have.  This is not idea, as one wants a reproducible method with Inkscape and open source.  But I have software that does it with less fuss and if your in a bind it is no problem.  It's CorelDraw btw.  I exported the png from Inkscape, pulled into Draw and made a U.S. Web Coated (SWOP) v2 cmyk pdf, but am not sure I have the right font or if the dimensions are right.  The PNG out of Inkscape had a large white box, (I assume from the filter effect,) so I cropped it, but might not have gotten it precise.  https://www.dropbox.com/s/33d83dajlple52z/cmykpdf.pdf?dl=0
Thanks for that, the dimensions weren't quite right and it does need to be very precise, hence the template layer. Here's a png with filters and flow text removed. Adalberto Álvarez CD P2-3 ® for png.png
*Adalberto Álvarez CD P2-3 ® for png.png
(1057.39 kB . 979x522)
(viewed 1499 times)
I also upped the opacity loads as the first png's came out really washed out. Your kind offer would get me out of a bind actually, and I could then learn how to use this stuff under less pressure. Thanks. btw, I had a Coral trial which expired, but this stuff is way too expensive for me.
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August 21, 2018, 05:13:54 AM
Reply #19

phiscribe

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RBH that file, Adalberto Álvarez CD P2-3 ® for png.png, is just 72 dpi.  You probably want it at least 300 dpi for printing.  In the Save as PNG dialog, set the dpi there.  Don't worry much that the dimensions change, it should wash out ok.  That is Inkscape doesn't report the size at the select dpi all that well.  At 300 dpi that image is only going to be about 3.3 inches wide.  At 72 dpi it is about 10.2 inches wide.
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August 21, 2018, 05:24:35 AM
Reply #20

RBH

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Bah! Thanks for that. This is supposed to be 300dpi. Any good?
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August 21, 2018, 05:48:28 AM
Reply #21

phiscribe

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Yes that is  300 dpi.  Here is a conversion.  But, there seems to be some unwanted white area to the top and the right.   https://www.dropbox.com/s/ep51it56r75aga2/P2-3.pdf?dl=0
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August 21, 2018, 06:11:54 AM
Reply #22

RBH

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That prints out very clearly from my pc but the left side half 5mm or so is missing, probably related to the corresponding white area on the right. The white area isn't a problem in itself, as it's outside the bleed lines but shifting everything to the left is. Not sure if that's just my printer, though it never did this before. I'm going to pass this to the printers and see if they can work with it. Thanks.
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August 21, 2018, 07:29:43 AM
Reply #23

RBH

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The man from the printers, he say Yes! Thanks again for that phiscribe, you kind of dug me out of a hole.
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August 21, 2018, 10:18:54 AM
Reply #24

phiscribe

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